Beholders

[Newbunkle]

Hi, what's the best way to deal with beholders? I've killed every monster on my way through the game, so my team shouldn't be weak, yet two or three of my adventurers die from one attack. The only way I've been able to defeat them is to use fireballs, only stepping into their line of sight briefly in order to fire. Often I don't even know they're coming, I'm walking along and a lightning bolt comes out of the darkness ahead of me. Is there something I could have been neglecting? I'm starting to think they're just dirty haxorz.

[Ameena]

Yes, Beholders are bastards, I have the same problems - "Tra la la...<BAM>.....ouch...". I think that's just down to stuff doing higher dam in RTC. I tend to have to do a reload or two and just leg it down there. There's an annoying bit on Level 6 where there's a rather long corridor and I can remember getting zonked a few times from nowhere by Lightning Bolts. If you have only one or two people in your team then you can get away with turning to avoid ranged attacks. Personally I use Fireballs to zonk the buggers, anyway - I rarely get in close with most casters.
I forget which skill it is...maybe Wizard, or might be Ninja, but one increases your Anti-Fire stat as it goes up. Well, if Lightning Bolts count as fire dam. Otherwise I suppose you'd need to increase your Anti-Magic. That might lessen the damage a bit, anyway. Oh, or you could make whatever potion it is that can protect you from them. Erm...might have to look that one up on the Encyclopaedia, unless someone else who knows about/bothers to use potions happens to post a more helpful reply on here .

[beowuuf]

Yes, the higher awareness distance and also higher damage in the RTC engine makes beholders lethal. Save often, and love the bends in the corridors.

The teowand in the middle of level four can cast anti-magic shields, and I have a funny feeling physical shields also provide a small amount of protection (I'm willing to be proved wrong on that one)

Either way, up your defense, and keep those fireballs going I'm afraid!

[Jan]

Yeah, fireballs amd fireballs, and then a rapier or something and smash those bastards like a rotten pumpkin! You'll learn how to defeat them soon, don't worry!

And welcome to the forums!

[Ameena]

Sadly you dont get the Rapier till Level 8 - first encounters with Beholders is Level 6 .
Oh yeah, and welcome to the forum, Newbunkle . I like your Avatar .

[Octopuss]

Beholders are those yellow balls with tentacles? I met two the other day and just chopped them to death within five seconds. But I assume having 120 anti-magic helped a bit

[Jan]

Sadly you dont get the Rapier till Level 8 - first encounters with Beholders is Level 6 .

You probably mean the Delta sword, which is on level 7 (or 8 if you count Hall of Champions as 1) - Rapier is on level 3 (or 4 if HoC is 1 - the worm level, simply). Never mind, Rapier was just an example, you can use any sharp object to smash beholders easily, as Octopuss pointed out.

[Octopuss]

It's been a few years since I met beholders with regular party, but even so I don't think they hit especially hard. I just pulled out axes and chopped them into dogmeat
Worms are worse imo...

[beowuuf]

NO, spellslingers in RTC are now by far the worst. Someone's custom dungeon recently had long stretched of corridor and lots of beholders, and they were a teeth grinding nightmare to deal with

[linflas]

Oh yeah, and welcome to the forum, Newbunkle . I like your Avatar .

isn't that blue star coming from Arkham Horror's board game ?

[Ameena]

Oh, okay maybe I was thinking of the Delta Blade, yeah. See, it's been ages since I played it, lol. I agree with Wuffy, anyway - RTC spellcasters are all bastards. Fortunately I rarely have trouble with Vexirks, at least, 'cause they're in a fairly small are with lots of turns and stuff, so you can usually spot/hear them before they zap you. But Beholders, as mentioned, are bastards. And Spell Vines are too .

[beowuuf]

At least with RTC you can explode a des ew on a wall and take them out when they aren't materialised

[Trantor]

Newbunkle, I suppose you play RTC, as spellcasters are way overpowered in there. As others said, be very careful and use fireshields. I also suggest using DES VEN, as that spell is currently ridiculously overpowered in RTC and much more effective against most single enemies (when you are facing groups, fireballs is better since it will damage all monsters on one tile, while DES VEN only damages one).

[Newbunkle]

Hi. Sorry, I nearly forgot I posted this, lol.

I am indeed using RTC. Nice deduction.

I've already tried shields, and they help a lot against a single beholder, though two can still wipe me out if they attack in quick succession. I must have missed the wand somewhere, but I'll look out for it next time.

I've already passed a second level with Beholders, but I'll give the suggested spells a go next time I encounter some.

PS the star is the Elder Sign, and it is from Arkham Horror (and also the CCG). Its supposed to offer protection from unnatural creatures and otherworldly beings, but hasn't helped me out in DM much.

[Ameena]

The second level with Beholders...that would be Level 10. Plenty of horrible casters to go, then (but I won't say what species) .

[Newbunkle]

Aaaargh, no!

[Ameena]

Btw, I take it this is your first time through DM? Just guessing from what you've been saying, even though you've only made three posts so far and they're all in this thread . Out of curiosity, who's in your party, and did you Rez or Reincarnate? Let us know when you finish!
Oh, and feel free to report any horrible deaths you have along the way - anecdotes of embarrassing moments and stupid mistakes are a large part of what makes this forum so much fun .

[Newbunkle]

I've played it before, but not since I was 8 or 9.

I don't think I got very far back then, but I remember restarting over and over to try different characters. I also remember writing out and trying every combination of runes to see if I could find any good spells. I found a lot, but couldn't always tell what they did.

I think another reason I didn't complete it is because I collected a number of similar games and kept switching from one to the other for a bit of variety. Actually, I probably didn't complete any of them. I had DM, EOB1, EOB2, Galdregon's Domain, Captive, and Black Crypt. Maybe one or two more, but my memory is hazy.

They were some of my favourite games because they were so atmospheric. For such a simple kind of game they did a good job of making you feel afraid at times. I think the only game I played more than DM and its clones was It Came From The Desert, because it had some interesting NPC interaction, and Them! is one of my favourite movies.

On my current play through, the only embarassing situation I've had so far is when I saved the game after a beholder snuck up behind me (again with those pesky beholders). I had to reload a few times until I could cast a shield spell fast enough to survive the first hit. Then I had to run away and rest.

I resurrected my characters for quickness, as at the time I didn't know there were any differences besides a name change. I forget the names of the ones I picked, but the first two are a lizard guy and bigfoot (I just thought they'd be funny). My rear characters are a ninja girl and a bald guy with a cheesy grin.

It might be some time before I finish as I'm playing quite slowly, but I'm enjoying reliving a few memories. It won't feel exactly the same as it was back then as I look at it in a different way now. I'm already starting to wish there was a bit more variety in the scenery. There are times when I think I may have missed an item or a button, and trying to navigate when everything looks the same can be a bit frustrating.

The other things that bother me are the wierd muppets that steal your stuff and run off. What kind of sadist thought they'd be fun to put in? Grr!

[Trantor]

I think the only game I played more than DM and its clones was It Came From The Desert, because it had some interesting NPC interaction, and Them! is one of my favourite movies.

I think I love you.

My rear characters are a ninja girl and a bald guy with a cheesy grin.

...or not. You took Mophus!

Erm, nevermind... The characters you have chosen seem to be Hisssa (lizard), Daroou (aka Mr. Hair), maybe Leyla (the ninja girl... if she came with a rope, then it's her) and Mophus (the psycho with that devilish grin).
If you are still at the second level with beholders that is also filled with skeletons and scorpions, then I'd say have completed about 70% of the game already. Keep going, the end is not too far!

I understand you get bored of the same single wallset meanwhile. However, I feel that each level feels different enough through its monsters, riddles, and general layout (one gigantic hall in one level, endless corridors in another one etc.) that each has its own identity. Looking at DM now, the dungeon itself isn't the greatest, as there is lots of open space without much to do. If you are still keen on playing more, try the sequel Chaos Strikes Back. There is no more variety in terms of decoration, but the whole dungeon is so packed with traps, puzzles and fights that you won't get bored quickly. It can be rather frustrating, though, since most of the time you don't know where you are. It is an amazing experience if you persevere, though.

There is also DM2 which features different wallsets and upgraded graphics in general. However, gameplay-wise, it is not nearly as good as DM1 or CSB in my mind (some people disagree with this statement, of course). There are also several fan-made dungeons in the Custom Dungeons section that are just as good as the original games, and some come with new graphics as well. Feel free to ask if you have any questions!

[Jan]

The other things that bother me are the wierd muppets that steal your stuff and run off. What kind of sadist thought they'd be fun to put in? Grr!

*nods*
I hate them too. I hate their laughing. Their cheeky laughing.
I love frying them with fireballs.

[Ameena]

Arr, yes, Thieves...back on the Atari they'd only steal from your left hand, so it was a case of "remove all the shields!" whenever you entered a level containing them. That was back when we used to actually bother with shields, of course . But in RTC they can steal from both hands so you have to either unequip everything, or just zap the buggers before they can yoink stuff . You usually end up meeting the same Thief more than once anyway - they tend to nick your stuff and then run off for a bit, then come and find you again later. Hopefully that time you're more prepared (keep at least one Fireball ready at all times! ) and can gank the little sod before he makes off with something else .

[Trantor]

Arr, yes, Thieves...back on the Atari they'd only steal from your left hand...

Really? I am pretty sure they could steal from both hands in the Amiga version... Can anyone clarify this?

[Ameena]

Maybe the Amiga and Atari versions were different...?

[Trantor]

Very possible, there were lots of subtle differences. I'm curious if this was another one of those differences or if my memory fails me.

[Ameena]

I'm sure they only stole from the left hand on the Atari - we (me and my dad) would always have to remember to unequip our shields (or whatever) whenever we went onto a Thief level. Unless, of course, it was just a huge massive coincidence and the Thieves we met only ever just so happened to yoink stuff from our left hands .

[Jan]

LOL, it has been discussed a zillion times on this forum. We're running in circles. But I still can't remember which version is which. I think it was left hand only on Atari (because CSBWin is based on this), and both hands in RTC. But I'm not sure about the PC version, lol. I'm confused.

[Trantor]

Oh really? I must have missed that discussion... Since both Ameena and me are rather sure, I guess that the gigglers stole only from the left hand in the ST original, and from both hands in the Amiga (and possibly PC) version. Since RTC is mostly based on the Amiga version, this explanation seems believable.

[Jan]

Oh really? I must have missed that discussion...

Heh, OK, so maybe not a zillion times, but a few times... at least twice. But we all agreed I think, so now everything we can do is to go to sleep and wait till BW says how it really was.

[beowuuf]

It keeps cropping up on many threads as references, just like this one!

For the record, atari and CSBwin left hand only, PC, Amiga and RTC both hands. And I believe DM Java anywhere! And DM II giggler equivalents can definitely take from your hands. Not sure if your pouch is safe....

[Sophia]

For completeness I will say that DSB also lets them steal from both hands, but they will prefer to steal from the left hand, and won't steal the right hand object as long as the left hand isn't empty. I wonder if the PC or Amiga versions show any preference like this, or if it's simply random.