Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

[Joramun]

To get blessed, you have to go in a place of religious cult were some greedy god will bless if you offer him what he likes.

If you need another hint :

The Temple, its door is made of wood, and thus vulnerable to the fireball spell, inside, find a way to the high priest, kill him, pay a coin and stay to get blessed

[Parallax]

The Complete Guide to Killing Lich Vecna (Not That It's Even a Good Idea in the First Place!):

Step 1: Find Vecna's lair, walk down the hallway, look confident.

Step 2: If playing with 1 or 2 party members, throw a couple of big fireballs, then dodge them as they come back. This should take care of the zombie that appeared behind you.
If playing with 3 or more characters, let the zombie unlive for now and skip this step.

Step 3: Bash with the front row, preferably with Maces of Order. The dagger "Swift Death" is also acceptable. The back row should be making healing potions. Rotate party members in order to keep everyone alive as long as everyone has mana. Bash and heal for however long it takes to kill big V. If you ever find yourself with two or fewer party members left and you skipped step 2 earlier, do step 2. Zombie damage adds up in the long run.

Also note that, sometimes, Vecna will try to 'flee', stepping around its square and not attacking for half a minute or so. This usually happens once near the middle of the fight and once near the end. Vecna's damage being fairly low anyways the respite is not really all that useful, but it will give you a rough gauge of your progress.

Step 4: Once Vecna is destroyed, act cool. Turn to the side to empty the niches, and kill the zombie if you still haven't done so. Do not turn more than necessary, each turn summons a poison gas on your tile. Wait between turns so that the gas dissipates, heal as needed. Don't forget to pick up your dead comrades if needed.

Step 5: You should be starting to feel the sting of why it wasn't a good idea to kill Vecna. Don't you feel stupid. Face Vecna's spot again and finish looting. Now step forward. You are out and the entire crypt level is now a mess. congratulations, you are now officially a member of the Vecna'killers club.

Step 6: Realize that you've really shot yourself in the foot for some crummy rewards with this lich-killing nonsense. Revert to your earlier save.

[beowuuf]

Interesting, killing or at least surviving vechna used to give a few nikce rewards

Alos, the first tip of attacking vecna - leave youyr valuables in the shrine area through the door

[Chaos-Shaman]

So I don't have to kill the bitch, ha, figures, you sneak Zyx.

[Parallax]

Sneak!? If you have Zed in your party he will outright tell you that it's a bad idea to mess with Vecna.

As for Vecna's loot being valuable I'd say yes, it's somewhat decent, but by the time you can actually survive the fight you don't need the loot anymore. Oh, and you don't need to drop any valuable if you leave by stepping on Vecna's square. The trigger for mass cursing is at the entrance of the tunnel and you should not be tempted to ever step on that square again, considering the, erm, situation afterwards.

EDIT: As for the square key for the barracks, you may have some luck getting its location if you release the vexirk at the very end of the prison hallway (in the last cell, press the small button on the wall.)

In that cell you will find a bunch of scrolls that detail the whereabouts of some keys. I hope that helps. If it doesn't, you can always do it like I did, which is by using the square key from the cellar level, bypassing the square lock there entirely by going through the labyrinth and down around the other way. A button will open the square door from that side, saving one square key.

[Christopher]

Another quick question.
1. How do I open the Throbben doors?

[beowuuf]

There are hints about what Throbben mastered - when you know this, you know what to throw or place against the doors (one hint is in the forges)

[Inanity]

At the moment I have two of these:

There's another square key in a hidden alcove in the mines.

[Christopher]

I have a feeling I've wasted quite a few keys so I've started over. Hopefully Iaido will give me more clues then Lief ever did. Even though I wasted a number of keys I found no use for some of them (Ruby key) and I also noticed that the gold keys that open up an altar of ViGor on the crypt level don't work. Not that I'd get any use out of the altars since I always play Conflux with one character. Still, seems like an error since I remember them working on different versions of Conflux.
Could someone PM me the answer to the Ninja guild path. I opened it up once. I know on the other side is a group of gigglers with a couple keys. After all this time playing, I still haven't figured out the wizard guild puzzle.

[beowuuf]

Gold keyholes don't necessarily mean gold keys

I think the ruby key is special, so you just didn't find that area - conflux is huge!

[Inanity]

After all this time playing, I still haven't figured out the wizard guild puzzle.

When all else fails, you can always resort to trial and error. There are only a few thousand items in the game, (and at least several score of those items can be used as 1 of the 10 items required to allow further wizard progress) and only a few hundred different types of items (as far as riddles are concerned).

edit:
Incidentally, for anyone else reading this and trying to get the hang of Conflux (which really is great if you can manage to survive past the initial learning curve) trial and error works even better for spells. One of the first things to do in conflux, once you have a reasonable amount of mana, is to try every possible spell and note what happens. I believe Zyx wisely ensured that none of the eventually-useful rune combinations mention the words 'mumble' or 'meaningless' (edit: actually, there is at least one and hopefully just one exception come to think of it but it should be obvious).

[Parallax]

I disagree when it comes to spells. Considering that almost every good spell is locked it is kind of pointless trying the ~250 possible combinations of runes to find out what can be, eventually, unlocked. I think one of the reasons the spells were locked in the first place was to discourage this tedious practice.

Besides, even if you can try out, say, SAR-KU-DAIN in advance and figure out it is locked, what good does it do to you?

And finally, if you are going to do that, may I recommend you cast ZO, repeatedly? You have to cast it a number of times before its effects become clearly apparent but then, what a riot!

[Christopher]

Thanks for the PM. What I meant was, the lock took the gold key, but didn't open up a ViGor alcove.

[Inanity]

I disagree when it comes to spells. Considering that almost every good spell is locked it is kind of pointless trying the ~250 possible combinations of runes to find out what can be, eventually, unlocked. I think one of the reasons the spells were locked in the first place was to discourage this tedious practice.

Hmm, well maybe I am thinking of Conflux 2. I guess it's kind of a personal preference for me, because I hate stopping to take notes while I'm actually playing and have found a new spell. If I have a list ready with all rune combinations and a description of what happens, it's much easier for me to refer to that to figure out what spells do what, especially when so many of the standard rune combinations have been changed.

Besides, even if you can try out, say, SAR-KU-DAIN in advance and figure out it is locked, what good does it do to you?

To me, it does a lot of good, not so much because I've identified sar-ku-dain as a spell, but because I've eliminated all the rune combinations I know will not be spells. If I don't go through the exercise I described above, I end up wasting more time in-game trying the same (edit: meaningless) rune combinations several times, instead of just once each.

And finally, if you are going to do that, may I recommend you cast ZO, repeatedly? You have to cast it a number of times before its effects become clearly apparent but then, what a riot!

Well, I didn't suggest they cast spells repeatedly when they don't know what the spell is doing. A single casting should be sufficient, just to put a question mark beside the zo spell and figure it out later. If they are dumb enough to repeatedly cast a spell whose effect is unknown, that's their problem. Like I said, for me the main point is eliminating the useless rune combinations, but maybe you have something else that works better for you. Like maybe you just keep a nice list beside you and take notes from scrolls as you find them - personally, I don't like stopping my play to take notes, unless I know I'm going to re-load anyway.

Once my list is complete I don't need to take notes, and I don't need to go fishing around for the appropriate scroll to remind me (edit: in my opinion these activities are far more tedious than the alternative) - as I unlocked spells it was easy to find the spell i was looking for by looking at my list of "fizzled" spells.

My feeling is that if we really analyzed this, like conducted a study or something, we'd find that people using my method make more efficient use of their time. But I could be wrong. In any case, Parallax, I think you were right to point it out because I think you've shown it's not as useful a thing as I was making it out to be. But on the other hand, not quite as useless as you're making it out to be, although if I'm not mistaken the whole thing hinges on my aversion to taking in-game notes, which like I said amounts to a personal preference (.... albeit, a personal preference for efficiency... but I've come to realize, since becoming a civil servant and bureaucrat-in-training a few years ago, that efficiency is not held by most to be nearly as important as I'd always assumed it to be)

And besides, ~250 combinations is really not that many - takes me about 20-30 minutes to run through them all, and then I know I won't be casting any meaningless spells for the rest of the game (barring accidental clicks).

[Parallax]

Well, whatever rocks your boat. If going through every single combination is your idea of fun, more power to you. And if you are going to try out random combinations anyways, you might as well be systematic about it. Yet, I do not agree that people who try out every single rune combination in advance are making the most efficient use of their time, unless they are having fun doing so. To me, it is a chore. I did it in Conflux, hated it, even though I felt like I had to, and in the end it got me a bunch of locked spells, a few unlocked ones that I might have found legitimately in the time it took me to plow through all combinations, and I still missed a few that are marked as 'meaningless' even though they are not.

As for the ZO spell, judging by your response, you have never tried casting LO ZO, UM ZO, ON ZO etc.. all the up to MON and then back down...

[Inanity]

Well, whatever rocks your boat. If going through every single combination is your idea of fun, more power to you.

Of course it's not fun, but I found it much less tedious than the alternatives, which for me were:

1. running from one end of the dungeon to the other to read a scroll I'd left in the guild area, just because I couldn't remember a spell;
2. fishing through my inventory for the right scroll;
3. stopping my game, and my train of thought, every time I find a scroll, in order to write it down; or
4. carrying all scrolls around with me until getting a chance to do a batch at once.

And if you are going to try out random combinations anyways, you might as well be systematic about it.

Yeah, it's only common sense. And it's a lot better than wandering all over the dungeon trying to find the danged scroll.

Yet, I do not agree that people who try out every single rune combination in advance are making the most efficient use of their time, unless they are having fun doing so.

I think it depends on the person. When I started playing conflux 3 I didn't bother fishing out my notes from conflux 2, and since I'd been playing other dungeons in between, I'd forgotten what all the spells were. But unlike with Conflux2 , I didn't do the rune combination thing right away this time, and ended up spending time casting meaningless spells trying to remember what they were. After a while, I decided to just re-do my spell notes, and ran through the combinations again. After doing this, things seemed much easier. I didn't know what all the spells did, but at least I wasn't trying meaningless combinations any more, and at least I wasn't wandering all over the dungeon or fishing through my inventory looking for scrolls.

To me, it is a chore. I did it in Conflux, hated it, even though I felt like I had to, and in the end it got me a bunch of locked spells, a few unlocked ones that I might have found legitimately in the time it took me to plow through all combinations, and I still missed a few that are marked as 'meaningless' even though they are not.

But it also told you which spells were useless. I'm not sure how you can argue that didn't help you. By the way, how many were marked as meaningless, but ended up not being meaningless? The only one I can think of is OH.

And besides, what do you recommend noobs do instead? I figured you had an alternate method, but you used my method and as far as I can tell there's no way you could not have benefited from doing so. The only other thing I can think of is taking in-game notes, and even then there are some spells you have to figure out yourself (unless I missed the clues, but others will also miss those clues) and you'll probably end up trying rune-combinations anyway.

As for the ZO spell, judging by your response, you have never tried casting LO ZO, UM ZO, ON ZO etc.. all the up to MON and then back down...

No, of course I haven't... why would I do such a thing? If there's a hint in the dungeon to do this, I haven't seen it yet. When I said to try all rune combinations I wasn't including the power runes; I thought that went without saying.

[Parallax]

No, of course I haven't... why would I do such a thing?

Oh, no reason. No reason at all.

[Inanity]

That's not very helpful. I'll try re-phrasing the question: did you try it because of the rune-combination exercise, or because there was a dungeon hint that told you to try it? Or some other reason?

edit: Oh wait, did you include the power runes when you tried all rune combinations? That would explain a lot - I wouldn't recommend that for anyone.

[snichele]

On another subject, I have several questions :
- Purple circle of invocation : how do you open the doors once inside ? there is the exit door, and a door with two snakes. Didn't found any way to open them... hint oracle doesn't help much.
- 'Towel' rag : in the council level, I found a fur rag which is (broken) in the captain barrack. What's the use of it ?
- Captain's barrack : is the bearded guy killable ?

[beowuuf]

- I think it is openable from the other side. There is another way out of the purpise circle - go to the corridors, and look or somethign hidden..
- towel ran is just a furniture. A disgusting furiture really!
- not that I am aware of

[Christopher]

Well, I got to 56 points before I realized you really need four characters to get anywhere. There's only so much a Lief with 800 HP can accomplish on his own I guess. Still, I don't remember needing 4 characters in the last version of Conflux I played in order to get to the tower. The hint in the game that suggests this is a little missleading. Now I have more questions.
1. I know someone already told me where the open door spell scroll is at, could someone tell me how to get there?
2. I've pinpointed the treasure for the cellar level using the compass and window spell, but I can't find any way to get to it. Can anyone help or give a clue to how I can get to it?
3. Another treasure I've pinpointed is in Moria at an area with the remains of someone and his name on the wall along with three other names. I found three other remains near, but none of them are the right names even though they say the same text at the bottom of the screen when I examin them. Am I on the right track for finding the correct remains or not?
4. There's an area in Moria that produces several hellhounds when you reach a certain point in a room. I've killed them all and only found bones there. Was this supposed to be a death trap or am I missing something in that room?
5. Can someone PM me the location of Halk's cursed armor? I found the helm somewhere which makes be think the rest of the armor could be anywhere. I don't want to spend hours looking around for it and forgetting where I've already looked.

[Inanity]

edit: Omg I forgot the trial empties your hands...

Whoa!! What happened?? I just went through the trial for the first time, and now I'm back in the guild area, but a bunch of my stuff has vanished from my inventory:

• My funereal dagger
• A bag containing two keys, including a sar key
• Furx
• and who knows what else!!

[Inanity]

Well, I got to 56 points before I realized you really need four characters to get anywhere.

Well, not really, but it's more fun if you fill your roster eventually, yeah. Waiting a while lets you take some guild leaders, which opens up more new quests, and the possibility of quite a lot more points, if you care about that.

Now I have more questions.

1. I think the open door scroll is on the highest level. Or maybe in the purple monster room? Hmm (scratching head) ...or possibly it was in the temple... (see my earlier post about trying all rune combinations)
2. Which treasure are you talking about? Have you solved the map you found hidden in the fountain of wisdom?
3. Hmm, I don't remember this in Moria, but I always suspected there was more to Moria than I thought. Did you meet the king under the mountain?
4. I don't remember this either.
5. I found a deth knight wandering around in the sewers, he had a piece.

[Christopher]

1. Being in college now, I only play on weekends so it'll be a while before I can try that.
2. Any time you use the compass/treasure spell, it gives you direction and tells you if you've found the treasure on that level. I've used it and located an alcove containing a wind, a key, and a few other objects (using the window spell). I know I have that map you're referring to somewhere, but I'm not quite sure what that's a map to or where it starts.
3. Not the king, though I can't free him either. The area with Balrog is what I meant. It has a pit which if you go down, or maybe put something in it, causes the arival of Balrog and a group of orcs or whatever they are.
4. Don't quite remember where it is. I believe it is up stairs from the Balrog level and through an ornate push-button gate.
5. That's the one I found, which means if I found one there (odd place for that creature), then the others could be anywhere.

As for not needing four characters, If I hadn't wasted some of my keys, I probably could have gotten a few more points out of Lief but not much more I'm guessing. But then again, there are many puzzles I just can't figure out that I don't remember if they have points or not (like the soap/water area). Out of curiosity, is that red creature in the underwater level the Eye Tyrant?

[Inanity]

1. It takes 30 minutes, and saves time in the long run, but of course it's up to you.
2. Okay well you need to solve that map. It's a map of part of the cellar. The starting point is on a floor pad, and you follow the path indicated on the map.
3. The only useful stuff I can remember is the balrog's loot.

is that red creature in the underwater level the Eye Tyrant

I don't think so, but then again I haven't actually met the eye tyrant, but I suspect it is a beholder.

[Christopher]

3. Not the Balrog loot. I finally figured out how to get that from the Balrog.
The thing under water is most definately not a beholder. It is a unique monster. Have you seen the monster I'm talking about (have you been to that level)? There is also another unique looking monster there but they are plentiful.

[Inanity]

The thing under water is most definately not a beholder.

I meant I suspect the eye tyrant is a beholder.

I think Zyx said the water level is still mostly experimental.

[Inanity]

But then again, there are many puzzles I just can't figure out that I don't remember if they have points or not (like the soap/water area).

There is another thread in this forum topic called "Conflux Challenge" that lists all of the things you can get points for.

[beowuuf]

Four characters - yeah, that's new, I used to just take a single player, and open up the guild endings as I liked. This fixes that and also ensures a full party, but perhaps missing that single player fun. Then again, you only need to choose three more champions - nothing says they then have to be living afterwards!

Open door scroll - used to be in two palces, it might only be in one now. You need to go upstairs fm the cellar (from either direction) and get to the area with the pits, teleporters and gates that you need to solve to open up. There is a crossroads guarded by a shedload of screamers - it's that area you need to solve. There is a trick to bypassing the screamer hordes though they can still be a problem.
If you want the spell, just yell and I can PM you it (if I remmeber it correctly - at worst it will be close to that)

Balrog bit - it's the well from the lord of the rings - if you throw the bones down (like happened with pippin) or yourself then the noise summons the orc horde and the balrog. The other pit, of course, being the bridge bit

Is there really treasure on each level? Beofre, the treasyre detect used to only point to the dwarf treasure. He might have expanded it since then

Halk's cursed armour is what he wears, and his ending is that open door on the stairwell that leads to mampang. You don't need to search elsewhere. If there is somehtign new in the game with the darc armour, then it could well be random placement liek the gigglers of CSB, so yeah, they could be walking around anywhere. The sewers more likely due to the pits around various places

Missing stuff from trial - i suspect you were attacked by gigglers and you didn't realise. They can steal items from your inventory I believe. Perhaps this is somehting new. I take it you know where you items from your hands ended up?

Creature underwater - no, the eye tyrant is indeed the beholder end boss on that level in the above water parts. You'll know him when you meet him, he's a tough cookie and the wall writing around names him specifically. So yeah, sopudns like the underwater l;evel now has a boss! As inanity says, that underwater level is still experiemental and gets additions each release. Usually the mass munchers get me so I haven't explored it as much as i'd like

[Inanity]

Hey beowuuf, do you know how to get to the king under the mountain? I killed all his pets but still couldn't get to him.

Re: missing stuff from trial - no i just got really confused... I'd forgotten that they take all your stuff, but it's easy enough to get it back.

Oh, another thing I just remembered... That knight at the end of the fighter's guild vanished on me 2 games in a row... He follows me out to the guild entrance where I have room to maneuver, but when he steps on a specific square he just vanishes... is this a bug?