Conflux III discussion thread - potential spoilers

Post by **Ian Clark** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:32 pm

If I remember rightly, I also had to keep freezing it and using magic on it.

Joramun · Post by **Joramun** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:48 pm

Ok, I'll try to hit some new quests, and then I'll try a new game with the last version and almost ultimate difficulty : one member of the maleficient guild.

(Well, unleashing hell is probably suicidal until you get a decent amount of hitpoints...)

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:53 pm

One member of the malificent guild is doable up to a point - have you tried the fdull guild at least to try their quest?

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:02 pm

Feiry cerberus - retroactively you will realise where the cheating methods came from

Actually, it might have been mentioned in another context

Some poeple on this thread may have already found the method without knowing it too

Many of the hidden fun things in conflux have been spoilt by now, so i think keepign the feiry cerberus a challenge to get yourself should remain for a while longer

As for the ending of the crown of kings/power gem and the dark councillor - the firestaff options were kept for these powerful items, and the dark councillor was a lord chaos - hence, you could cheat one of these away, and go and start the original DM ending.

So it was a bug in the game that would lead to nothing good, not some super secret ending

I think

Unless originally zyx had this asa legitimate killing the dark councillor ending.

What is another vestigial scret ending?

Parallax · Post by **Parallax** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:37 pm

Actually, the highest difficulty is not achieved with one character, but rather with three. One character dodges at least half the projectiles, takes little food to sustain, and rises in experience quite quickly. The only disadvantage is the limited inventory space. With three, no dodging, experience is spread out, only one character in three is "safe" from melee, it takes quite a bit of food to sustain, and you don't have the storage/backrow casting capacity of a full party of four.

And hey, with the curse brothers, you wont even have the doll.

I agree about keeping the fiery cerberus a secret that one has to find on their own. Sometimes I feel like Conflux has lost a lot of its mystery (although there are still a BUNCH of places I don't fully understand!)

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:08 pm

Double the melee abaility is not to be sneezed at though, and tripling your mana is also a good sop.

Good points though!

Inanity · Post by **Inanity** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:26 pm

Joramund wrote: I read you could once get a special ending by using the bone doll and the crown of Kings on the dark councilor,

Does that mean there's a way to get the crown out of the tower? Maybe it's time I learned how to teleport.

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:32 pm

not anymore!

Inanity · Post by **Inanity** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:53 pm

beowuuf wrote:Double the melee abaility is not to be sneezed at though, and tripling your mana is also a good sop.
Good points though!

The full analysis is much more complicated - what you are saying is true, and no doubt 3 characters is easier than 1 character in the first few minutes (or hours, depending on what you do with it) of play, but before long it's not triple mana and double melee anymore, because your 1 character has advanced more quickly than your 3 characters would have. However, when I played with 1 character, my advancement wasn't much faster (edit) - in the short term it's too fast, and I ended up losing a lot more training (still lost some with 4 but not nearly as much since it takes them longer to advance) while looking for guild items.

Furthermore, it's not really double melee even for the first minute, because some of one character's "ready time" is invariably wasted while you do stuff with other characters. What I'm saying is that the fewer characters in your party, the more efficient each character will be (edit: except if you like using time-consuming attacks, or when you run out of stamina, unless you are quick at making stamina potions or always have some ready.... etc. etc.).

There are other points we haven't touched, as well - I don't think it's worth it to perform a full objective analysis.

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Post #69 by Journeyman Inanity

Inanity · Post by **Inanity** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:17 am

Parallax wrote:Yep, you're well on your way. Keep exploring and solving puzzles, you'll find the guy eventually.

Well, I'm trying to figure out if I missed something in that annoying darkness level. Is it somewhere in the garden of whatever? I killed all the golems but I didn't get the portcullis open - I see a flower in there and don't really want it anyway... and I killed all those dragons but all I really found was the sundrier and a dragon spit and the armoury and some item-recharging thing. I got the Mage Caduceus behind the portcullis, is that the only point of all those buttons and levers and pits, or is this the way to whats-is-name? If so I can't figure out how to get rid of the last pit.

Edit: Are my questions all answered by hints elsewhere in the dungeon

More editing: Maybe not... was thinking of the sundrier but I doubt that will do anything critical.

My guess is he's behind the b-door, but I'm short 1 key. Can I show something to the eye "Xanathar is watching" that will let me past the teleporter behind me? I tried casting darkness and invisibility but that didn't work. I'm thinking ashes (tried the mirror) but I don't have any on me.

Inanity · Post by **Inanity** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:37 am

Joramund wrote: About the cursed armoury : I found a "zooooom" area with demons...
They are very tough, especially because of their "panic" ability !

What? Where? I found a zoom area but no demons... In the cursed armoury all I found was some cursed armour and a unique vorpal blade, and that was it, I figured that was all there was so I went back to wherever I'd come from to explore another direction...

Edit: I do vaguely remember encountering some demons that were coloured differently than normal, but I found them easy, and I don't remember any "panic" ability... are we talking about the same zoom area?

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:31 am

Panic ability is resisted by party size and certain levels I think - if you have a buffed up party, then they might be less susceptible

In previous versiosn the eye was simply for flavour, I do not know if it has changed since then

Anywa, thoughroughly explore all the areas for the four keys...I forget if you ctually need them to unlock the eye tyrant's position though

snichele · Post by **snichele** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:59 pm

Well well well !
I was running in circle for a while when I finally read the last posts... so I returned to the apprentice area and found that, HEY, there was a lot more to explore !

More questions, then (not all related to this area) :
1, white chambers : I kicked the ass of all white lords and fire spirit. There is still a guy behind a door I can't open... any hint ?
2, Oracle : is it worth opening the door that leads to it ? I don"t see the point...
3, Council chambers : there is a lot of doors I can't open. Is this normal ?
4, Darkness level : that's the shi...st part of the dungeon ! Is there a way to cancel the darkness ????
5, Xanathar : still missing two keys...I'm a little bit stuck with the pits area (button "for pits" only close one of all !)... ha this area really annoys me ! I didn't get as far as inanity yet...
6, Sundrier : nice gfx, but what is it used for ?
7, Green Nightmare : Maybe I'm stupid, but I can't pass the mirror "I want to see a crowd" ? I suspect that my 3 members party is the reason... I hope not !
8, Guild leaders ending : I reserved the 4th place in my party to take a guild leader once I will have cleaned the dungeon, in order to test its ending. But I have place for only one ...

Do that mean that I must save, take one leader, find his ending, and reload with another leader ? Is there any "drop character" out there I am missing ???

Post by **Ian Clark** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:24 pm

4, Darkness level : that's the shi...st part of the dungeon ! Is there a way to cancel the darkness ????

Yes. Something that didn't really help you in DM or CSB will help you here.

Joramun · Post by **Joramun** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:33 pm

Snichele :
1 - The last chamber I find annoying, because of the poison...
2 -The Oracle can be reached from the other side. And to be honest, I didn't find it very interesting.
4 - I agree. I found 3 exits, and a door in the middle. Two upward to the zooooom area, one downward, where I found a mage caduceus.
5 - Xanathar : You shouldn't spend your keys there. It's a useless and huge loss. The other side can be reached from somewhere else.

I killed Xanathar, and got a whole lot of points in the area.
I still can't find the cursed armoury.
Q: Are golem damaged by spells ?
Swift death seems to be the only weapon to kill them.
Also : should I try to kill the Dark Councillor with conventional weapons ?

Post by **Ian Clark** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:30 pm

Q: Are golem damaged by spells ?

I doubt it.

Also : should I try to kill the Dark Councillor with conventional weapons ?

The Oracle should help you on this one.

Post by **Ian Clark** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:37 pm

7, Green Nightmare : Maybe I'm stupid, but I can't pass the mirror "I want to see a crowd" ? I suspect that my 3 members party is the reason... I hope not !

You need 4 party members to pass these mirrors.

Parallax · Post by **Parallax** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:05 pm

Inanity wrote:Are my questions all answered by hints elsewhere in the dungeon

Yes. This is due to the time machine. Zyx has been to the future and read all your questions in this thread (including the ones you haven't posted yet.) Then he went back in time and put cryptic clues in the dungeon.

Joramund: Did you open that door you found in the darkness?
I think golems are slightly damaged by lighnting bolts, because of the impact damamge component that spell has. According to the hints, Xanathar has a golem-slaying weapon, but I never could find it, and I think it may be bugged (you get a different reward where you should be able to imbue a weapon, I believe.)
You should try to kill the Dark Councilor using conventional means. It took me 45 minutes with the funereal axe before I gave up. How long will you last?

snichele:
2. Don't be stingy. How many bags full of emerald keys do you have by now? Also, there's a Vexirk in there and he said rude things about your mom...
3. yes.
4. There is a trapdoor that doesn't trigger the darkness somewhere, because of a bug...

6. Drying stuff, with the power of the sun...

7. Green... nightmare? Where is that?? As for the "I want to reflect a crowd"mirrors they are roadblocks that will get removed once you have a full party of four. They force you to take roundabout ways to just about anywhere on the council level and below. Annoying, but nothing insurmountable.
8. Bad idea if you plan on taking Halk. I'm just saying. I did the same thing (except with only one character and three free spots) and Halk is a pain in the rear because items you NEED to complete his quest are scattered all over the place... but only appear after you bring him into the party. In fact, this is a much more effective roadblock than the mirrors if you ask me. Zyx take note!

8 also: there is no way to 'drop' a character from the party.

Inanity:
Sadly the loot for the gardening experiment is crummy in comparison to the amount of effort it takes to obtain it.

And Beo, the vestigial ending I'm talking about is located in one of the guilds (that should place it for you without revealing anything.)

beowuuf · Post by **beowuuf** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:21 pm

4. There is a way to beat the darkness...albeit it very temporarily. Still, enough to naviagate, and hey, it's proabbyl a metaphor for life. Or a bug

Vestigial ending - may as well PM me a full spoiler

I know there is an entirely different type of game experience hinted at in one of the guild endings. Now that is a much better kept secret than the feiry cerberus

Inanity · Post by **Inanity** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:42 pm

Joramund wrote: 5 - Xanathar : You shouldn't spend your keys there. It's a useless and huge loss. The other side can be reached from somewhere else.

Okay, so you found him, but where? From reading your post, I've been everywhere you've been, except behind the b-door. Everything leads to a long dead-end, which makes it a big pain in the ass to find the dude if you don't know what you're looking for.

Re: cursed armoury - Parallax gave you the answer
Re: Golems - I'm sure ya ven hurts them also, but not by a lot.

Parallax wrote: Zyx has been to the future and read all your questions in this thread (including the ones you haven't posted yet.) Then he went back in time and put cryptic clues in the dungeon.

Dang, I knew it!!! I mean, I always sort of suspected Zyx was some sort of a God, but wow! His powers are even greater than I had imagined!

Joramun · Post by **Joramun** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:03 am

Inanity : return to the zoooom area, and exit the loop in the demon area. If you've already killed them, it's the area with the portcullis and a way open on each side. There you'll find an area with water elementals.

Odds are you didn't do everything you could there.

Inanity · Post by **Inanity** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:16 am

Hmm, okay thanks, that must be it. I don't remember meeting water elementals around here. I already wasted 3 b-keys, stupidly (I even thought to myself why do this until I have all 4, but then I thought ah, I'll have to open it anyway, and i was lazy for the inventory space) but I don't want to waste the 4th if not necessary, not to mention I can't find a 4th.

Edit: Speaking of keys and inventory space, that reminds me I have a phantom key in my inventory... its name is like an upside down ROS or something, and it's invisible unless the mouse pointer has it. I haven't tried putting it down in the dungeon yet, maybe I'll go do that.

Joramun · Post by **Joramun** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:45 am

I have currently 3 cerberi...

I killed the Dark Councillor, and I don't know if it was a good idea... (especially since I went upstairs to the Crypt)

Bug : I'm not 100 % sure, but I think it is possible to get trapped down pit D with the powergem : spending the onyx key elsewhere, or trying to use the giggler maze as a shortcut...

EDIT : I looked in my archives, and I can't find a hint about the throben doors. Is it a scroll, a wall text or a character dialog ?
I might have thrown the scroll away, which would be a pain...
But I'm almost sure I saw something about them in the dungeon.

Inanity · Post by **Inanity** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:35 pm

Joramund wrote: I killed the Dark Councillor, and I don't know if it was a good idea... (especially since I went upstairs to the Crypt)

You have to use the power gem to open things up again... is that what you mean? Vecna doesn't want you to do thatl, so you have a battle on your hands first.

snichele · Post by **snichele** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:38 pm

Parallax wrote: 2. Don't be stingy. How many bags full of emerald keys do you have by now? Also, there's a Vexirk in there and he said rude things about your mom...

Ok, well, but is there a real utility to lose a key on this ?

Parallax wrote: 6. Drying stuff, with the power of the sun...

Ok, well... but what can you "dry" exactly ?

Parallax wrote: 7. Green... nightmare? Where is that??

Stairs of ash, the door right near the "guardian golem" (remmeber the "rise guardian, rise".

Parallax wrote: As for the "I want to reflect a crowd"mirrors they are roadblocks that will get removed once you have a full party of four. They force you to take roundabout ways to just about anywhere on the council level and below. Annoying, but nothing insurmountable.

So there is another way to climb down the stairs that lead to the dragon and the tower and Mampang without 4 characters ???

Parallax wrote: 8. Bad idea if you plan on taking Halk. I'm just saying. I did the same thing (except with only one character and three free spots) and Halk is a pain in the rear because items you NEED to complete his quest are scattered all over the place... but only appear after you bring him into the party. In fact, this is a much more effective roadblock than the mirrors if you ask me. Zyx take note!

I'm sorry but I don't get the point ? What's the matter with halk and the fact that items appeards after ?
To dig the question : once I will be ready to try the guild leaders ending, what advice can you give me : which guild leader must I try in priority for the quality of his quest ? And once I will have choosen one, will I have to explore the full dungeon again to discover the special parts ?

Parallax wrote: 8 also: there is no way to 'drop' a character from the party.

Definetly something Zyx should try to add in a next release !

Ho, and did I mentionned this game is one of the best I ever played ?

Joramun · Post by **Joramun** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:41 pm

Inanity wrote:You have to use the power gem to open things up again... is that what you mean? Vecna doesn't want you to do thatl, so you have a battle on your hands first.

I know ! But I didn't expect EVERYTHING (more or less) to be closed !
And the fight is not very tough... If you know from where to begin it

Inanity · Post by **Inanity** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:47 pm

Joramund wrote: EDIT : I looked in my archives, and I can't find a hint about the throben doors. Is it a scroll, a wall text or a character dialog ?

I think it's wall text, written in the forge.

Joramun · Post by **Joramun** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:54 pm

snichele wrote: Definetly something Zyx should try to add in a next release !

Aside from the fact it is probably not possible in CSBWin,
Being able to remove characters would require A LOT of bug fixing :
- Make sure the party never gets empty (otherwise fights become a piece of cake)
- Make sure character specific quests and dialogs gets deactivated...
- Make sure that no abuse or block may arise from that situation :
*Stealing items from a character and then removing him from party
*Moving items in a character-specific part of the dungeon, removing the character would close away the items ?
etc.

Of course there are immediate solutions to those problems (like allowing to remove a character only when his quest has been fulfilled, and not closing away character-specific parts of the dungeon...)

Ho, and did I mentionned this game is one of the best I ever played ?

Same here ! Only a few rpgs (Daggerfall, Fallout and Planescape Torment) come to my mind, and they compete only because their engine were dedicated to some things CSBWin isn't :
- dialogs and graphics
- complexity and random generation for Daggerfall,
the biggest RPG ever (roughly 45 000 km² (or is it 450 000 ? ) , walkable surface in game scale)

Inanity wrote:
Joramund wrote: EDIT : I looked in my archives, and I can't find a hint about the throben doors. Is it a scroll, a wall text or a character dialog ?
I think it's wall text, written in the forge.

Aarrggh I can't find it !!
I can't levitate, too... probably because I don't know the spell... but I swear I tried every rune combination ! There must be just a couple of spells I don't know yet...

Christopher · Post by **Christopher** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:01 pm

The hint is in the Forge but it isn't walltext. It's on a scroll.
Hint: How did you find so many daggers in the Sewers level?

BTW, I was very dissapointed when I found the proper spell and opened the Throben doors. Still, it's neat to see what Gothmog's ending looks like (if you're quick)

Edit: If you cast every rune combination then you cast the proper spell; the spell isn't locked.

Joramun · Post by **Joramun** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:18 pm

Christopher wrote:The hint is in the Forge but it isn't walltext. It's on a scroll.
Hint: How did you find so many daggers in the Sewers level?

Are you talking about how to find the scroll ? Honestly, I don't remember how I found daggers in the Sewers.
Besides, if the hint is on a scroll, then I probably throw it away somewhere unreachable (e.g. solving a certain riddle or in/beyond a pit)...

Edit: If you cast every rune combination then you cast the proper spell; the spell isn't locked.

Same here : are you talking about levitation or the spells that opens the throben doors ?
If the doors are open by a spell, it's pretty obvious to me then...

EDIT :
Ok, I reached that ending... the final text is a bit weird...

Makes me think : Among the 7 endings, I suppose that 5 are guild leaders ending, and 2 are "normal" endings ?
Or are the 5 guilds endings an addition, making the total a daunting 12 different endings ?

Since I only played with the 4 guides until now, I think I haven't seen a quarter of the stuff in conflux