General CSB/DM oddities/bugs v0.21

[Gambit37]

I've started playing a CSB game properly in RTC for the first time. I've found some CSB specific bugs, but also some general bugs, so have started two threads to list them. I'd normally list each bug as a separate thread, but I've found these few just after half an hour of playing, so it makes sense to keep everything together so as not clog up the board.

GENERAL BUGS/ODDITIES OR DIFFERENCES FROM DM/CSB:

1) Teleporters side view is not displayed from a certain point. Look at this screenshot of the first room in CSB. There should be a teleporter visible in the tile next to the coin slot. (and no, I haven't switched it off yet!)
<a href="http://www.dmcodex.com/rtcbugs/teleport ... r01.gif</a>

2) If you stand right next to an open pit, there's no side view. In this screen shot I'm standing at (17,29,4 DMute coordinates) and I should be able to see the corner of the pit to my left, but I can't.
<a href="http://www.dmcodex.com/rtcbugs/pits01.g ... s01.gif</a>

3) Oitus did not poison in FTL DM or CSB, yet they are pretty severe with this new attack in RTC. Is this a mistake, or artistic license?

4) Rope should not fit in the pouch--should only fit in chests, hand or backpack

5) Generators should not work if party is standing on same tile. However, in the Rive laughing pit area of CSB they continually generate at (8,17,6) (object 7096) even if party is on this tile. It's possible to kill them too and generate a dust cloud that the party is standing in! Although this is a CSB specific example, the point about generators is a general engine bug.

6) Rives won't cross open pits, and they fall down pits that open beneath them. In both cases they should float over them. I haven't double checked this with Ghosts, but the behaviour should be the same for both.

7) Teleporter/spinner functionality is wrong. Collisions appear to be detected AFTER objects have been processed by the spinner. For example, In RTC CSB the teleporter at (12,21,6 DMute coordinates) does not allow my fireballs to strike the antmen that appear from behind the door at (12,23,6). The fireballs are teleported out of the field immediately (additionally, you don't see them traverse the tile--they enter/exit immediately with a kind of jump from one corner to the other). In FTL DM/CSB you can see them move through the tile, turn, continue through the tile, then exit. Spells and objects should respect the side they entered the spinner, and exit on the same side--they don't appear to be doing this in RTC

If you go to the character inventory, and he has the magic map showing, when you feed the character, any animations on the magic map (e.g. teleporters) will speed up!

9) Flying eye has wrong screen position. I've compared this to Amiga CSB: In RTC, the normal frame should be 26 pixels HIGHER on screen, while the attack frame should be 13 pixels LOWER.

[Lunever]

I thought, the Oitus were always poisonous?
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[billgus]

7) Spinners work better the before, but they may still be a bit off. I, too, saw the AntMan glitch and in another place. The problem is that spinners are treated as a teleporter. Actually, they should be treated as separate objects in order to get the graphics pathing. If a spell enters a true teleporter, the direction change can be instanteous. But a spinner most look 'correct'.

They are some variations of 'correct'. FTL has a more elaborate implementation than realy needed. As long as RTC has a predicable pattern, I think it is OK.

As far a triggering the spell, the old implementation checked for a new (just cast) spell before it exited the spinner. (Rive Triangle) I agree there some be a path followed as the spell enters into a spinner. 'Skipping' isn't right.

[billgus]

These are some bugs I sent to George via E-mail - mainly because one required an attached graphic snapshot and EZ-Board doesn't allow that.

(general) I have noticed that some pits don't open when an item is placed on them. The item just disappears. It should show the item for one frame and then an open pit (item gone) for the second frame, and then close again.

(Start) The flask puzzle off the Run & Jump pit is now fixed.

(Quick room) was acting funny until I realised that RTC is
missing a graphic. If you look at the bottom left corner of the
attached .pcx file, you will see the corner of a pit adjacent to
the party. That graphic is missing from RTC. I think I found this in v.19 for cowsmanant's graphics work.

(lower Ku path) The Ant Men now have a Gold key again. The dragon is tough. The munchers still seem a bit poison resistant - although they didn't run away - more testing required. The knights are tough, too.

(lower Dain path)

Rives are still falling through Laughing Pit to basement.

Rives and Water Elementals are leaving their lair. Just wait
for them to come. (Makes the Dispell gun useless.) In FTL, you might see one or two Rives around the first door. But the Lair would be full - hence the desire to find and use the 'gun' to kill off some of the hoard.

(general) I haven't checked RTC, but I believe Water Elementals can attack into the rear of the party in FTL.

(Rive Triangle) Niche with Vorpal Blade is *almost* correct. You are suppose to put an item back in to open the way to the back room. In FTL, it's a "reverse Constant Weight".

(After Rive Triangle) The "back room" is suppose to have a fountain, I think.

The two buttons in the Rive Triangle room (that summon a Slimer) should be multi use.

Snakes (Cougtal?) are still not weak to poison cloud. The ones in the 'Prove' room should die after 2+. I didn't count, but it's at least 12.

I thought the wooden doors to the Rive Lair are suppose to be Fireball-able. I used a Gold key up - the others could be 'chopped'.

(Ros path)

I looks like the Tossing Puzzle is now working. However, the door to the Knights and Rock-slugs is suppose to be openable if you come up from the 'Landing'. I tried fireballs, mayby a chop is needed by RTC.

Both the Knights and RockSlugs dropped 2 stories into the basement and survived. The basement is not a good place to fight a Knight. I suggest a damage tile. (I would have thought the Rock Slugs would be very susceptible to falling
damage - a soft body between a rock and a hard floor.)

In the Corridor Puzzle, the spinner next to the door should NOT have haze.

The Scorpion Fireball Generator fires too often (after grabing the Green Gem). You should be able to run up the corridor, close the next door, wait for it to be blasted, repeat.

Also, I thought those doors all had windows in FTL.

(Neta path)

The fountain path with the Key of B didn't seem to work. (Second try worked OK)

The path of doors now has a skeleton - that's suppose to be a Wizard with some food. (Second try - saw the wizard - and the skeleton! Where is the skeleton coming from?)

The Wizard with the key now appears as you leave the square! You fixed it! He still fires fast.

(upper Dain) The first pit at the Corbum pillar doesn't show correct graphics. It should show an open pit in both open and closed state. It now shows an outline (open) and nothing (closed) - just like a plain pit. It is suppose to be an illusionary one - note the nearby hint.

(upper DDD) The dogs (Hellhounds) leave a lot of food. I don't remember what FTL does, but I thought that FTL's rats only left a single drumstick.

(upper Neta) The fireball generator in the upper Neta level seems a little fast. It's the one that can be redirected to the Demon Den.

(Ros) The Zoom side corridor - with the green boots and ring - is too fast. I entered with a fully healed party and immediately hit the down arrow several times. It seemed to ignore the keyboard. I remember hacking this in v.19 and using a delay of 5 or 6 - which seemed about right. You should hit the pit if any characters are slowing yellow for encumberance.

(Ku) You should always get a group of four Knights. This is suppose to be SCARY. My second try got one lousy Knight.

(Ku) I could hear the 'quiet' teleporters in the long corridor. Zonk! Both directions.

(Ku) The Dragon Den is going to be very hard. It appears dragons (and other monsters?) can see forever. When I walk into the room, the dragon directly ahead is aware of the party - not so in FTL, if you step aside instead of walking to the center of the room. If you try to work on one of the side room's dragon, the one far behind you on the other side of the room comes out. I believe that in FTL, monsters could see 3 squares - just like the party.

=================================

Old physics axion: two objects may not occupiy the same space at the same time. (OK, OK, I know about two electrons in one orbit. That's why they came up with 'spin' - to hack around the axion.)

I tried the Neta Sekelton Puzzle again and they still don't respond to the Horn. I had surpressed the switchable wall, so I was able to trick one into the teleporter - only to find that I didn't have the fireball shooter switched on.

I tried teleporting more skeletons in, but the engine didn't mind multiples. I had one skeleton in the center and three in one corner. I don't think this is proper. Single monsters should be in the center (with a few exceptions). Multiple monsters should always be in corners - one per. (Dogs & worms have their onw set of rules.)

I stopped at four - I should have tried five. At some point, the square should overload and monsters start dieing.

[Lubor Kolar]

Pretty huge buglist
About this topic:
I believe that in FTL, monsters could see 3 squares - just like the party.

That true and even one feature is missing. I wrote it some time before so I will repeat myself. Monsters should _not_ recognize false wall as false until party moves through this false wall. After that monsters (in close range from party) will know that this wall is false and will move through it. But not before! If party did not move through false wall, naerby monsters should behave as if this wall was normal non-illusionary wall.
This behaviour could be seen in CSB in starting room or in huge room full of false walls and dragons.

[Gambit37]

10) Throwing stars "twist" when spun by a spinner. When you throw them into a spinner, they are vertical, but when they come out they are horizontal!

[Gambit37]

11) This is quite a serious one. Movable walls can close on monsters, so they end up "inside" and can still attack you. Even if a wall has been activated to close, it should not close until the tile is free of monsters.

I'm using the wall at (18,15,6) as an example -- the one where you remove the torch from the sconce and the wall opens to reveal a horde of mummies. If you place the torch back in the sconce while mummies are on the tile for the movable wall, the wall closes and they are trapped "inside"!

[Gambit37]

12) The "choppability" and "blastability" of doors seems to be an inherent property of their type, not an attribute that can be assigned. This messes up some parts of the dungeon(s).

For example, there's a wooden door at (17,26,6 object 7247) in CSB that can be opened by either a Gold Key or LockPicks. The door should not be blastable. But in RTC, it is. There are many other places where this causes problems, although some of these are perhaps only aesthetic (you've used wooden doors in preference to wooden doors with windows in some locations, clearly to get around this restriction).

Is it possible to modify door behaviour, so that these options can be assigned on a per-door basis?

[beowuuf]

11) - this could happen in FTL - a monster on a wall that was closed could move and attack out of of

[Gambit37]

Really? I must admit I have never seen that!

[beowuuf]

Yu, only really occurs in DMute - seen creatures supposidly 'trapped' in a false wall that can walk away, and others that are trapped using teleporters int othe false wall can still attack out of it (see zyx's conflux for an example of this in the demolishable wall)

[George Gilbert]

Fixed and will be in V0.22

[Lunever]

Best would be (if possible) to have closing walls the same effect upon creatures as closing doors.
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[beowuuf]

Easier to leave the dungeon designer to do this on an individual basis by including a damage tile activated at the same time as the false wall - personnaly i'd leave it as is just now

[Gambit37]

I don't agree, this wall problem should be fixed. As you say, it's only really possible in original DM by hacking with DMute.

If this problem is left as it is, it will make things much harder (and a lot less logical!). Walls are supposed to be 10 square feet of solid rock, how can monsters exist inside it?

[beowuuf]

By hacking i meant creating the situation, but it can happen in even the DM dungeon - dragon killing would be no problem on the final level, just close the wall on it from the secret way in, etc

I do see your point but personally i don't want a player to be able to get past huge amounts of monsters by flicking a toggling wall on their heads!
It's easier for dungeon designer to add this with a damage tile, or maybe have a second dungeon false wall type that damages when on, than have this the only option and then have to design a dungeon around it.

[Gambit37]

I'll assume your replying to Lunever, and not me, otherwise your reply doesn't make sense!

[beowuuf]

My replies never make sense, so they? : )

I'd forgotten your proposal by that reply I must admit, yes, that solution would be fine. Sorry for the confusion!